Good bye and good riddance Obama

[ragman]

Dirty Tricks 
One of the problems with a 3rd party is the manipulation by one of the other two parties.  This is going on in several states right now.  In my State of Massachusetts the independent who previously was a democratic and is the State Treasurer is running for governor and this almost insures that the current unpopular Dem. Gov. Patrick will get reelected.  The independent will pull 5-10% of the vote, enough votes from the Repub. challenger to defeat him. Minus the independent we would certainly get a change in governors.

Yes, Ron Paul probably got screwed and I agree with much that he stands for but he is unelectable as an independent an only insures the election of liberal candidates. He should run as a Republican where he would have the best chance overall.  Yes, I know there are obstacles he would have to overcome but...

In other States Dems are running candidates claiming they are Tea Party members to help sway the election of Repub. of have a good shot of being elected.  

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0810/40699.html
But locally, Democratic officials and activists in at least four states now stand accused of collaborating with tea party candidates in an attempt to sabotage Republican challengers in some of the closest House races in the nation.

[Otteralum]

Been lurking, but very very busy.  Good to be back at least for a moment.

Good thread.

As a third party candidate, I've gotten to see some of the issues firsthand you guys are talking about.  The Buckeye Firearms Association here just out-and-out lied, said they did not receive any thrid-party surveys and refused to list and non-D/R candidates in the voters' guide.  They underestimated the backlash on this and lost hundered of members when they were caught.

People are really sick of the 2-party game, but there needs to be substantially more for it to result in anything viable.  I, for one, think any third party movement will need to begin at the state house.  Local voters need to see a third-party candidate get elected locally at the state level and serve a term without doing something stupid.  Only then will they believe that a) thrid parties aren't all extremists, and b) are viable candidates.

I'm polling at about 12% right now which is phenominal for a Libertarian.  I'm not satisfied though.  I'm on the cusp of getting the Ohio Tea Party PAC endorsement.  If that comes, I may have a shot at this thing.  Otherwise, I may max-out at 15-17%  In a 3-way race, I feel I likely need about 38% to win this.

It's educational, I'll give you that much.

[Otteralum]

Oh, and I was very much against California Prop 14 as was the Libertarian Party.  It makes it that much harder for 3rd parties to compete -- not easier.  See my letter on-topic here.

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/editorials/stories/2010/05/17/open-primary-would-mean-fewer-choices.html?sid=101

[clover]

The top two could also be the Republican and the Libertarian.  If the message is right for the majority of the constituents represented, the money will follow.

On paper, nationally, roughly 25% of voters are Democrats and 25% are Republicans and 50% are independents.  The person that represents the interests of the independents already has the advantage. 

I think the issue is that most Americans are tired of "party politics".  Congressional job approval reveals that.  There's no reason an independent with a message that represents the middle can't garner the donations and support necessary to win an election.

[deadserious]

Oh, and I was very much against California Prop 14 as was the Libertarian Party.  It makes it that much harder for 3rd parties to compete -- not easier.  See my letter on-topic here.

My opinion on how to fix the system has changed drastically since the 08 election year. 

In my experience, primary elections rarely result in a non-establishment candidate, even and especially in a closed primary system.  But I also don't believe that open primaries are the answer.

On the other hand, the fact that Ron Paul won caucuses/conventions in several states (even if the results were ignored, overturned and invalidated) shows that the anti-establishment candidate can win in a caucus/convention type system when ran honestly and fairly.

I think the only true way to fix our two party system is to move to a single and open caucus/convention process.  A state should hold a single, cross-party caucus and convention process where any candidate getting over 28% of the convention vote is invited to run in the general election from that state.  There can be no requirement that any candidate be from any particular party.  If less than two candidates have 28% of the convention vote, the candidates with the least votes are incrementally eliminated between revotes until at least two candidates achieve at least 28% of the convention vote.

Upon time for the general election, the voters would vote for electors in the Electoral College as they do today.  The state's electors must only cast their vote for one of those selected in the state's convention based upon the results of the general election, thereby creating the possibility that no single candidate would be on the ballot in all 50 states and reducing the likelihood of a landslide party-line candidate.

The Electoral College would then mean something again.  Grassroots candidates would have significantly more influence than they do today and party politics would center around individuals and their ideas rather than establishment talking points as they do today.

Granted, this is less likely to happen than my dropping a turd on the Queen's doorstep, and I'm not planning a trip to England any time soon.

[Otteralum]

your idea may work ds.  

@clover, the top two "could" be a Libertarian and a Republican, but you just doubled the height of the bar if a Libertarian has to fight both a primary battle and a general election battle.  In my case, if I had to fight Republican and Democrat money just to get on the November ballot, I wouldn't be there -- period.  At least now, I am in a three way race, and the 50% independents you speak of have a clear independent choice.  Fact is, independents may be 50% but rarely vote outside the two major aprties -- no matter how much they complain about it.

[Otteralum]

The only way I would favor an open primary would be in a  "vote for 2" system.  This way, if you're afraid your Libertarian vote would be wasted and help the Democrat win, you can vote for the Libertarian AND Republican.  This would eliminate the "wasted vote" excuse and may actually result in a Libertarian (or other third party) elected to office.

[clover]

Sounds like affirmative action for Libertarians and Republicans

[Otteralum]

Or for Greens and Democrats

[clover]

I can't imagine the outcome in San Francisco!!!!  Democrats are probably too conservative!!!.

[ernieB]

Democrats and Consevrstives in the same sentance ?

[martinbsmithjr]

Rather than comment directly on Obama, here is a fable about an Ant & and Grass hopper.

Ant & Grasshopper (old version)

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed. The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE OLD STORY: - Be responsible for yourself!

Ant & Grasshopper (new version)

The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away. Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.

CBS, NBC , PBS, CNN, ABC & the BBC all show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food. America & Britain are stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green...' ACORN the liberal group that advocated prostitution for minors stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing 'We shall overcome'. Then Rev. Jeremiah Wright has the group kneel down to pray for the grasshopper's sake.

President Obama and his socialist friends from Britain condemns the ant and blames President Bush, President Reagan, Maggie Thatcher, Christopher Columbus, and the Pope for the grasshopper's plight.

Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry King that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share. Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the Government Green Czar and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant’s food while the government house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the ramshackle, once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

The entire Nation collapses bringing the rest of the free world with it.

MORAL OF THE STORY FOR AMERICANS : - Be careful how you vote in 2010 & 2012.

[bethieb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPHJ7f3ufnQ

What's the difference and why are so many people hoodwinked by partisanship politics?

[rykat]

good vid, love that "shopped" shot of Bush/Obama !!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!

[martinbsmithjr]

The Obama agenda has in many ways been an extraordinary and unprecedented assault on the free enterprise system that made the United States the most powerful nation the world has ever seen. It has succeeded not only in making America weaker, poorer and gravely more indebted, but also in eroding the very principles of liberty and freedom upon which it is based. The backlash will be huge. This November, the sinking Obama presidency is heading for a political iceberg that will rock the foundations not only of Capitol Hill, but the White House as well.